if you've fallen out of love with your primary?
and when do you know if it's time for quits?
and when do you know if it's time for quits?
posted by:
|
SF Bay Area
|
-
Re: how can you tell?
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 1:23 PMWell, I'd say that if the question has even arisen, there's certainly something there that needs addressing. Has an event happened recently that brings this up for you? Has there been a change of some sort, gradually or otherwise? Are you getting your needs met by this person?
Are you able to sit down with this person and have the "how are we doing?" chat? I've found that to have the potential to be less threatening than other scenarios (e.g., "we have to talk"). It can often bring to the fore things that neither of you realized was lurking in the background.
I'll hold good thoughts for you.
-
Re: how can you tell?
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 4:26 PMDo you still enjoy spending time with, curling up with, coming home to him/her? Does your primary make you feel cared for, loved, safe? How do you feel when you imagine your primary hurt or sad? Does it hurt you to see them that way?
If the answer to any of these is "No" then you at least need to talk to your primary and see why your relationship is dying. Sometimes it is simply a matter of breaking out of ruts and bad habits that you both have become entrenched in. Sometimes you need to take a break from each-other and come back to the relationship with fresh eyes. Sometimes you need to part ways, but I personally feel that love is important enough that you should do everything you can to salvage it before letting it go. Love cannot survive un-nourished. It is not fairy tale magic to thrive without being tended. Love needs work, a lot of work, if it is going to live; bu tit's worth it. -
-
Re: how can you tell?
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 9:16 PMthanks very much! this was very good feedback.
i'm having NRE with a new lover and it makes me doubt my feelings for my primary. the NRE has lasted so long - 5 months. is that long?
comparing the two i love my primary more but there is so much better chemistry with the lover!
it gets confusing! -
-
Re: how can you tell?
Sun, May 11, 2008 - 3:07 AMNRE typically lasts up to one year and is known as "the honeymoon period." That NRE always fades though and a lot of people become seduced by the power of a new spark with all that intense connection only to find that a year later that relationship has mellowed just as the previous one did. -
-
Re: how can you tell?
Thu, May 15, 2008 - 5:51 PMHi there. Thanks for speaking about the NRE. I am on the other side of that, I believe, and it sometimes creates doubt in my mind.
My primary has had a couple of secondary/other relationships blossom since he and I have gotten together almost 3 years ago now. It is an open/poly arrangement and so his other relationships are fine with me, but..... when he is having that great NRE with his other partners I sometimes feel I am not interesting to him anymore.
Not to hijack the thread, just throwing another perspective out there all to say that, Yes keeping a LTR fresh and fun does take work and attention. I believe the love is still there for both of us, but the demonstration of that love is the part that needs constant reassurance. -
-
Re: how can you tell?
Thu, May 15, 2008 - 6:12 PMNRE is very tricky indeed. I am wrestling with that right now in fact with my primary of 20 years and what may be a new secondary. I would like to think that I am capable of sharing the NRE or using the energy as leverage with my primary to make her feel more loved than less. I don't know if this will work but I am willing to back off of the new relationship as much as I need to until my primary feels comfortable as long as we are actively communicating as we go.
No matter what I intend to make any jealousy issues that may come up for my primary and life partner as easy for her to deal with as possible using the tools I learned in my last secondary relationship. But that is another story...
Please know that as relationships go, poly relationships are the most difficult relationships of all. That always gives me at least a little comfort when things get tough.
-
-
-
-
Re: how can you tell?
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 9:17 PM<Do you still enjoy spending time with, curling up with, coming home to him/her? Does your primary make you feel cared for, loved, safe? How do you feel when you imagine your primary hurt or sad? Does it hurt you to see them that way?>
yes, thanks for these questions! they help.
i realize my answer is yes! -
-
Re: how can you tell?
Sun, May 11, 2008 - 9:15 AMCommunication is always the key. I don't think you could ever communicate too much with your primary. NRE can be deadly to your primary relationship if it isn't handled carefully. Your primary needs to feel as safe and loved as you can possibly make him/her. I also think it may be possible to let your primary benefit from the NRE by sharing it with him/her. This is a good time to practice the fundamentals of conflict resolution techniques including time outs and brainstorming to solve issues as they arise. Please keep in mind that even though the issues all seem to be your primaries problem, if you want to keep the relationship alive, the issues must become yours as well.
If I learned nothing else from the breakup I recently went through, it is that you hold the future of your relationship with your primary in your hands. While you cannot prevent your partner from becoming jealous you can help him/her through the hard times with a little compassion, understanding, and a willingness to get through them together.
I wish you nothing but success and happiness. -
-
Re: how can you tell?
Mon, May 12, 2008 - 10:17 PMthanks myriad and plat....for this feedback.
this helped me discuss stuff with my primary.
i don't believe that all issues are my primary's problem though! never did, never could, never will.
i'm unitarian (and atheist/pagan) and we had a sermon yesterday on accepting ours and other's imperfections.
that was quite helpful!
i had not realized that NRE can last so long.
i think that's especially relevant as it pertains to secondary relationships when they have a primary as well as you. cuz then you only really see each other at their best. you don't have to live with them day in day out like your primary. or even if you don't live together (my primary and i no longer do but are happy living apart) you don't have to deal with as much "stuff" with your secondary so it can feel like a permanent honeymoon.
thanks everyone for this tribe.
i mostly lurk but i really get a lot out of reading the posts.
it's very helpful to have a safe place to ask questions!!!!! -
-
Re: how can you tell?
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 10:43 AM"i'm unitarian (and atheist/pagan)"
Total side issue, but atheist and pagan are very different things. -
-
Re: how can you tell?
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 4:58 PMWell, not necessarily. You can be pagan without believing in any gods. Technically Buddhism is a pagan religion. All "pagan" really means is a religious/spiritual system that is NOT one of the Judeo/Christian offshoots. -
-
Re: how can you tell?
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 5:20 PMthat's if you're describing buddhism from an xtian perspective....to the xtian, anything not jewish or xtian is "paganism"...or even "satanism"...which is, naturally, absurd.
to an atheist (especially of the richard dawkin's school of atheism) being called a pagan is just about as ridiculous as an xtian calling a muslim a pagan. buddism isn't paganism to a buddhist (to the best of my understanding and i could be totally wrong and not upset by it) :^)
though, of course, there are pagan elements in some strands of buddhism...just like there is in certain varrieties of xtianity...<cough> catholics <cough> :^) -
-
Re: how can you tell?
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 5:51 PMcompletely OT but i can't resist the bait...
the word pagan actually comes from the latin "paganos" which literally means "country people" and was used during the middle ages to refer to the people within range of the catholic church (more popular in urban areas) who had not yet been converted. so technically it refers precisely to worshipers of the gods of old western and eastern europe.
sorry to help in the hijacking of the thread, Kinnari ;-)
-
Re: how can you tell?
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 8:17 PM"to an atheist (especially of the richard dawkin's school of atheism) being called a pagan is just about as ridiculous as an xtian calling a muslim a pagan"
"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world." -- Richard Dawkins
It's all man-made silly religion to me, be it pagan, muslim, jewish or christian. I think a lot of modern atheists fall in Dawkin's camp and not only reject the idea of god, but they reject all religions as bogus. Yes, that includes paganism.
-
Re: how can you tell?
Thu, May 15, 2008 - 7:04 AMActually you can't call anybody a pagan without using it in the Christian sense. Why? Because they invented they invented the term so they got to define what it meant. Because pagan WAS defined as non-Christian (though they never did seem to call Jews pagan) that means anything that isn't part of that mythos falls under the pagan umbrella. I'm sorry, but the word really is that vague and all encompassing.
By one of the later definitions of the word a pagan is a person without belief in god, which makes many Buddhists and every atheist pagan.
Know thy language.
dictionary.reference.com/browse/pagan -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: how can you tell?
Thu, May 15, 2008 - 9:32 AMEvery atheist is not pagan. I reject all religious beliefs as an atheist, not just those that are judeo-christian. -
-
Re: how can you tell?
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 6:59 AMEvery atheist IS a pagan in the sense that one of the definitions of the word "pagan" is a person who does not believe in god. -
-
Re: how can you tell?
Sat, May 17, 2008 - 1:12 AM"Every atheist IS a pagan in the sense that one of the definitions of the word "pagan" is a person who does not believe in god."
Most uses of the word pagan describe belief in some sort of Imaginary Friend, just not the one popularized by Abraham. It might be tree spirits, or Gaia or Santa Claus. Might be animists. The belief in the imaginary Friend is inherent.
Most uses of the word atheist describe refusal to accept ANY sort of Imaginary Friend. At all.
This != rocket science.
But, tell you what -- you find someone who says "I self-identify as an atheist and i self-identify as a pagan" and then it'll be a discussion, 'cause all the folks I know who self-identify as atheists pretty much lump paganism right in there with worship of Abraham's god, Santa Claus, and any other sort of Imaginary Friend -- and personally reject 'em ALL as untenable.
That would be what makes them "atheists." ;) -
-
Re: how can you tell?
Sat, May 17, 2008 - 6:08 AMPeople who self-identify as atheists would never call themselves paga. Of course the folks who self identify as pagans wouldn't call themselves "irreligious" or "godless." One of the valid meanings of the word pagan is a person who does not believe in religion. Any religion. It is generally used and an insult and I truly doubt any of the fine folks in this room have ever used it as such. It is, however, still a current and correct usage of the word. Again I refer you to the previous link I posted to Dictionary.com, or you may choose your paper bound dictionary of choice. Most, if not all, will list something along the lines of:
"Offensive
a. One who has no religion.
b. A non-Christian. "
-American Heritage Dictionary
It is a word, like "queer," that those who choose to reclaim and self-identify with probably do not mean in the same way as those who sling it as an insult and frequently at people who would NOT self identify that way. Both meanings are valid even if one is typically used by asshats who mean it as an insult. -
-
typos
Sat, May 17, 2008 - 6:11 AMI appologize for my sloppy typing, 6AM is not my best time. Just add an N onto "paga" and call that "and" an "as."
Also let it be noted that my quote from American Heritage Dictionary was an excerpt, not the whole of their definition. I failed to convey that and wouldn't wish anyone to think them to be so lax in their duty.
-
Re: how can you tell?
Sat, May 17, 2008 - 11:19 AM"People who self-identify as atheists would never call themselves pagan."
Then unless you're planning to establish yourself as some sort of authority that gets to tell people what they are regardless of what they're telling YOU, then this thread's kinda done, I would think.
Unless you maybe have some really important reason why it's important that "atheist" and "pagan" be accepted as synonymous before constructing some other thought. -
-
Re: how can you tell?
Sun, May 18, 2008 - 4:39 AMI'm pointing to the dictionary, to the accepted definition of the word. Somebody tried to tell a person they could not be both an atheist and a pagan. They are incorrect. Whether you personally like the definition of the word or not is really irrelevant. Whether I am an atheist, pagan, or purple space monster is also irrelevant. The word means what it means. That is changing, but as of yet it has not completed that change and still holds several meanings. One of those meanings encompasses atheism. -
-
Re: how can you tell?
Sun, May 18, 2008 - 12:33 PMI'm sorry -- I missed the part where it was important that you get to tell people how they self-identify, again?
-
Re: how can you tell?
Sun, May 18, 2008 - 8:55 PM"Somebody tried to tell a person they could not be both an atheist and a pagan. They are incorrect."
Uh... no. I said pagan and atheist are two very different things. You can label yourself whatever you want, but where you went wrong was equating paganism to atheism. One generally has a set of religious beliefs and rituals, the other is opposed to religion. Even if you want to use a dictionary definition to define your beliefs, they are not even close to being synonymous.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: how can you tell?
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 12:51 AMJust because the Christians coined the term originally doesn't mean that language doesn't evolve. Do you know what the word "nice" originally meant? How about "happy"? -
-
Re: how can you tell?
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 7:10 AMLanguage can and does evolve, which is why "pagan" no longer just means somebody who lives in the country, but our modern dictionaries still say that pagans are those who do not follow Judeo/Christian paths. That was the point, yes?
(and for anybody who's actually interested in the completely irrelevant etymology of "nice" and "happy" here's some links. It really is interesting stuff)
www.etymonline.com/index.php
www.etymonline.com/index.php
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: how can you tell?
Thu, May 15, 2008 - 10:31 AMOne dudes opinion:
Loving someone is what you choose to do, actively. Being "in love" is powerful chemicals/energy involuntarily flowing through you, passively.
You only control the active loving and, with faith, that will create the in-loveness. I firmly believe that the two are cyclical together...loving more, leading to more in-loveness, leading to loving more, etc.
After dating N (now my wife) for about a year, I noticed that I wasn't feeling NRE any more. I internally freaked out, wondering if that was the end of our relationship. Then I realized it was just a transition time...lower NRE but more comfort and safety. After realizing that, and embracing my active love for her, the NRE seemed to come back pretty soon. In the past 15+ years with her, I have fallen in love with her, feeling swells of NRE over and over again, while I actively love her 24/7/365.
The synergy of two people actively loving is phenomenal!! Maybe it should be SRE in this case???...synergistic relationship energy...like NRE but with the intimacy/safety of long term commitment.
I like to ride the swells of energy with my hands in the air, and then enjoy the comfy smooth periods with my feet on the ground...knowing that a swell is just around the corner. -
-
Re: how can you tell?
Thu, May 15, 2008 - 10:42 AMKinnari- After rambling on, I feel the need to summarize my message to you...
If you were in love with her at one time, and you actively love her, you will fall in love withe her again...and it can get better and better.
(Disclaimer: Huge shifts in values or communication breakdowns might decrease your active loving which will decrease development of in-loveness)
-
-
-
-
-
-
Unsu...
Re: how can you tell?
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 2:01 PMAccording to what I have read and heard from my therapist NRE can last up to two years but hardly ever lasts longer than that. Its evolutionary function is to make us obsessively involved with one person long enough to produce children. I think it is absolutely crucial to any poly relationship to learn to handle NRE in a way that is non-threatening to established partners. If you value your relationship with your primary, see this as a challenge and an opportunity to grow. Understand that in any relationship you're in, NRE could happen to your partner and threaten your status too. If this is helping you identify problems with your primary, talk about them before you give up. A relationship that is capable of surviving NRE is very precious and you should give it a chance to work.
