My husband and I have been some flavor of open/poly for about 8 years now (together for over 16 years total). We were pretty much on the same page about what we wanted "outside" of our relationship for many years, but recently our comfort zones have shifted. We both are interested in (and have) serious on-going secondary relationship. So on that page we agree. But aside from that, I have little to no interest in casual encounters (with the very occasional exception), whereas he is still very interested in having hook-ups with people. Not random strangers, but friends with the occasional benefit, or people at play parties.
For some reason, this makes me very uncomfortable. Part of it is STD concerns (how wide are we going to make our circle?), but given his conscientiousness with asking about testing and using condoms it is not just that. I think I do not feel comfortable being that intimate with that many people, and by extension I don't feel comfortable with him being that intimate with that many people.
We end up fighting about this all the time and we seem to be at an impass. Either I have to accept feeling uncomfortable and scared, or he has to feel restricted and resents me for it. There doesn't seem to be much of a way to settle it.
Any advice?
For some reason, this makes me very uncomfortable. Part of it is STD concerns (how wide are we going to make our circle?), but given his conscientiousness with asking about testing and using condoms it is not just that. I think I do not feel comfortable being that intimate with that many people, and by extension I don't feel comfortable with him being that intimate with that many people.
We end up fighting about this all the time and we seem to be at an impass. Either I have to accept feeling uncomfortable and scared, or he has to feel restricted and resents me for it. There doesn't seem to be much of a way to settle it.
Any advice?
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Re: when you have different comfort zones
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 4:57 PMIs it important that they be random hookups or would he be OK with having a small circle of regular friends-with-benefits? Could you be OK with that? -
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Re: when you have different comfort zones
Wed, May 21, 2008 - 9:26 PMhi!
one way that i like to ask about needs is:
"ok, let's say we both have these other new people. how does that make us feel?"
then you list all the feelings....
you can drill down further to what the actual fears are.
you can work on overcoming the fears little by little.
i think no matter how long you are with someone like you 2, there is no end to what will come up next that must be examined.
xo
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Re: when you have different comfort zones
Wed, May 21, 2008 - 10:07 PMVERY tough stuff, Diva!
You have raised a far bolder point than a lot of the philosophical, "poly enlightened, mono primitive" discussions here ever venture into.
I have recently been exploring whether my committed poly-ness isn't t related to my immaturity on many, many levels. The tie-in is that, as a chronic secondary (by choice) in the NYC poly community, I am often with someone else's primary and in that intoxicating state of NRE.
Believe me, all promises to primary partners (in my experience)--"I will always be honest with you," "I won't do anything without a condom," "no kissing," "I won't fall in love," etc.--go out the window where NRE lust is involved. My partners ALL lie to their primaries and it bugs the hell out of me and makes me question my maturity again.
I think that many polys worry that their primary will find a partner who they will love or lust more than them and that they will go mono for that person.
But it sounds like your husband is interested in fucking not love. I honestly don't know what I might be made more uncomfortable by: my partner wants to fuck random others, maybe carelessly, OR, my partner is looking for love and might find someone they love more than they love me.
My guess is that your husband has NEVER ever sought or found real mature love outside of you relationship. My worry is that your husband is living an extended immature adolescent selfish fuck-fest and is ignoring the invaluable support and strength of the relationship you have that makes it all possible! Trust me, his libido would be NOTHING without you. WITHOUT YOU, he'd be a scared little boy without the guts to even approach all these ladies he thinks are spreading their legs just for the blessing of his gigantic tool (that's just assumed)!!!
Sb -
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Re: when you have different comfort zones
Thu, May 22, 2008 - 5:13 PMYour take on this really got me thinking (ouch!). My wife and I have been upfront with each other on this issue, and it does come up, because we know how out of whack one can be when things are new. One rule we have is the person we are involved with must be considered a long term relationship. Whether it's her secondary mine or both. Which to us means you know that person and we are both comfortable with moving forward (sex). If either of us doesn't feel comfortable, then the sex is off the table until we both are. For us, this eliminates one of your comments on lying, "My partners ALL lie to their primaries and it bugs the hell out of me and makes me question my maturity again." We don't want to be put in the position where you feel you have to lie to your spouse/ primary. So far this has worked for us.
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Re: when you have different comfort zones
Thu, May 22, 2008 - 7:52 PM"(that's just assumed)!!! "
Just for some future reference, those are some damned insulting assumptions.
It's good to help someone who may be down, but it's not very good to cut down others in order to do so. -
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Unsu...
Re: when you have different comfort zones
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 6:05 AMYeah I also didn't get why a guy who sleeps with some of his friends and people at "play parties" (isn't that what they're for? I don't know--) is assumed to be sleazy and also his partners are assumed to be sleazy. There's nothing wrong with enjoying sex for its own sake and expressing yourself sexually if that's how you feel. But maybe there is something else going on that leads Diva to believe he's working out some kind of unhealthy issue here--she knows him best--if there isn't any evidence of that I'm not sure i see the problem. It's even more of a leap to assume his partners have a problem. -
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Re: when you have different comfort zones
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 7:17 AM"But maybe there is something else going on that leads Diva to believe he's working out some kind of unhealthy issue here"
Except there really isn't anything speaking to that in her post. Hell, as far as her post goes it's more of an issue of a difference in desires and Diva's uncomfortableness with those desires, or perhaps the way he implements those desires.
The fact that they end up fighting about it often does tend to imply that there may be some . .. continuation of actions that create these fights, which can imply a lack of caring.
But to assume that such things are present seems like an awful lot of projection to me.
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Re: when you have different comfort zones
Thu, May 22, 2008 - 4:29 PMI suppose what I read in your post is this.
Why does your un-comfortableness with that larger circle have to extend to him, that is as long as your trust him to be safe and keep your needs in mind? Don't get me wrong I understand what you are saying and in fact struggle with it in my own current relationship as she is a free free spirit and I just rarely get into casual sex. So i had to look at the exact question I ask you. I am not sure if I have an answer really, because it is such an individual thing. However in the end one of the things I love most about her is her free spirit, her ability to connect to so many people so easily. If I were to ask her to limit that i would be putting a damper on one of the things that turns me on to her.
Just remember to be honest to you and honest to him too. You can have conflicting points of view in a relationship as long as your both willing to really hear the others point of view.
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Re: when you have different comfort zones
Thu, May 22, 2008 - 10:59 PMYou have a right to ask for the most sensitive of the comforts zones you each have, be met.
He has evolved into manhood in a much different world than you have, in your evolution into womanhood.
He has been stingingly put down for his natural desires his whole life while you have been able to satisfy them nearly always. Witness the (assume statement) in this post.
He cannot help but have a reaction to this toxic (to men) sexual culture.
And that reaction seems to be a form of hoarding behaviour.
It's really hard for men to get over this. -
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Re: when you have different comfort zones
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 5:00 AMJack said: "He has been stingingly put down for his natural desires his whole life while you have been able to satisfy them nearly always. Witness the (assume statement) in this post."
Why would you assume that he's been put down for his whole life? Where on earth did you read that in her post?
Jack also said: "He cannot help but have a reaction to this toxic (to men) sexual culture.
And that reaction seems to be a form of hoarding behaviour. "
That's quite a leap. It's possible but without knowing far more about the situation you don't even know if you're anywhere close to why her husband wants to keep having more casual experiences. -
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Re: when you have different comfort zones
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 5:56 AMThoughtful point Steve.
ALL men in this society have been intermittently reinforced with regards to their sexual needs. If you are heterosexual and a male you have had such reinforcement. It's not a leap. How one reacts is the variable. Not the fact of reinforcement. -
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Re: when you have different comfort zones
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 7:07 AMJack said: "ALL men in this society have been intermittently reinforced with regards to their sexual needs."
What reinforcement are you talking about? That men are "stingingly put down for his natural desires his whole life"? If so then. . . well, you give no definition for "natural desires" so I have no solid clue as to what you mean because I don't want to assume and "natural desires" is a subject that isn't at all clear due to a myriad of factors.
Further, assuming that females "have been able to satisfy them (natural desires) nearly always." seems pretty patently false. But since I don't know what you mean when you are talking about "natural desires" I can't really say.
So, if you want to define;
natural desires
the reinforcement you are talking about
and how womens natural desires are easily fulfilled vs mens natural desires
Then we'll have a pretty good base to really speak to these things.
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Re: when you have different comfort zones
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 7:20 AMDiva said: "Any advice?"
I wish I had some good advice. :/
The best I can come up with is for you to try and isolate what it is about the situation that makes you feel so uncomfortable and to keep the lines of communication open. I'd definitely suggest trying not to fight about it, as in my experience fighting is more of a detriment to communication than an aid but this is far easier to say than to put into practice. I guess, if you feel your getting into fight mode that you take a break from the conversation, maybe find someone you can vent to so that you can discuss and think about the issue with a clear head.
Good luck!
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Re: when you have different comfort zones
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 7:57 AMDiva...you state "for some reason this makes me very uncomfortable". I guess this might be part of the reason for the fighting, as it seems you both have a healthy history of communication. Could a contributing factor to the fighting be that you really don't have a clear answer of why this bothers you...at least I didn't read one. Time for some self-reflection I think. Find out if there really is an issue and exactly what it is or if you're issues are really temporary flare-ups of something you can deal with and get past. It's a lot easier to hear what someone else's needs and limits are and why, if they themselves know exactly what the issue is and can express it clearly.
People change...from this short description it sounds like you are changing the way you want to live your own life from the way "you both used" to live it and want your husband to follow your lead? Why does he have to change...just because you did? You even state you'd still play by the old rules by saying, "with the very ocassional exeption".
It seems there must be a compromise somewhere in this mix that will allow you both to honor each others needs and boundaries...best of luck.
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Re: when you have different comfort zones
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 1:22 PMI recommend a reading (or re-reading) of The Ethical Slut.
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Re: when you have different comfort zones
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 3:32 PMDifferent comfort zones is totally normal. As is the situation you describe, a poly primary marriage where one partner is a lot more comfortable with casual sex than the other (and it often breaks down on similar gender lines). I think my wife and I were in a similar boat a few years ago. Mainly for us it was she was uncomfortable with other couples hitting on us as a package deal, more like swinging, she was uncomfortable having casual sex with non-LTR partners, not me doing it. I think you just have to be clear that it's not for you, but also give him the freedom to still explore these more casual relationships if that's what he wants. If he's playing safe I would think STDs isn't that much of a concern, and I think you are using that as a bit of a cop out, it sounds more like it's how it makes you feel. Which I understand, but it seems less like something worth fighting about and more about communication and reaching a middle ground... I have to say though, I lean towards your husband's position/opinion.