Ok, long story short...My secondary whom I have been seeing for over a year now (who is married), recently came to me and asked if we could threesome with a mutual friend of ours. Seeing as how I am normally 100% willing for new excitement etc, I graciously agreed after speaking with her to make sure all would be well on her end. We had a great time, and was left feeling happy with the situation.
So, now, I have a problem, I now find that she is actually in love with my secondary, we will call him M...and that she doesnt want to share him, and would prefer for me to be out of the picture. Well, Im not ok with this because I do love him very much. However, I have told him that if he wanted to leave our relationship to appease her that I would in fact step aside for their happiness. He told me that he really doesnt have much interest in having her as a (solo) secondary, and really only wanted to involve her on a every once and a while fuck fest with him and myself (which was originally agreed upon by all parties!!!)
Well, where I guess I am stuck is, he recently has been drifting more and more to discussing her as part of our relationship and how we should include her. I really have no desire for that...and I thought that I had made that very clear. And now that he is constantly bringing her up even in our most private and sexual times and conversations, I am saddened and don't know how to make him understand. I enjoy our relationship together as it is, and I am FINE with him having a relationship with her but I dont want to be a part of it and I dont want her a part of ours!
Has anyone else found themselves in this kind of situation? Any advice on how to make him understand how I feel? ~thanks!!!
So, now, I have a problem, I now find that she is actually in love with my secondary, we will call him M...and that she doesnt want to share him, and would prefer for me to be out of the picture. Well, Im not ok with this because I do love him very much. However, I have told him that if he wanted to leave our relationship to appease her that I would in fact step aside for their happiness. He told me that he really doesnt have much interest in having her as a (solo) secondary, and really only wanted to involve her on a every once and a while fuck fest with him and myself (which was originally agreed upon by all parties!!!)
Well, where I guess I am stuck is, he recently has been drifting more and more to discussing her as part of our relationship and how we should include her. I really have no desire for that...and I thought that I had made that very clear. And now that he is constantly bringing her up even in our most private and sexual times and conversations, I am saddened and don't know how to make him understand. I enjoy our relationship together as it is, and I am FINE with him having a relationship with her but I dont want to be a part of it and I dont want her a part of ours!
Has anyone else found themselves in this kind of situation? Any advice on how to make him understand how I feel? ~thanks!!!
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Fri, April 25, 2008 - 7:24 AMI would tell him that I didn't believe that she would respect the relationship between yourself and him and that is an unacceptable trait for anyone in a relationship with you. Be clear that if he wants to pursue a relationship with her then it will be a deal breaker for you.
Of course, it does have to be a deal breaker but I wouldn't want to be involved with someone who actively wanted me out of the picture.
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Fri, April 25, 2008 - 7:29 AMIt sounds like you and he have different ideas about what you want the relationship to be. If you've told him what you want and why, and he's not responsive, then it's up to you to decide if you want to accept his idea or not. If you haven't told him, try that first--
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Fri, April 25, 2008 - 7:36 AMHow were you made aware that she wants you out of the picture? Does she feel the same way about M's wife?
Your "mutual friend" sounds like she may have had an agenda...
Maybe you should just tell him your attraction to her has waned, and that he should feel free to see her all he like, just not with you - as none of that is untrue, it seems. Maybe it's true that he doesn't really want to see her solo, and he just really enjoyed the threesome. In that case, maybe you can find someone a little less posessive to fill the bill. -
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Tue, April 29, 2008 - 12:13 AMOH....we this woman and I had a long conversation at lunch after our lovely afternoon of fun :) Basically she opened up how she was excited to be asked to join us, but in all honesty was upset that she alone was not enough for him. I asked her if this just applied to me, or also to his wife, and she stated that he will always be tied to his wife, and she was there first...so no, she wasnt bothered by his wife. I pointed out that I too was "there first", and she basically just replied that while that was true, she didnt think she could be so "far down" on his list of priorities and would prefer it if he and I were not involved. I told her I understood her feelings, and that she should talk to M about them...and that I hoped everything worked out for her and him. I did confess to her that I mainly did involve her for M's sake. I dont know if that was a good or bad thing. As far as I know, he truly doesnt want to see her solo...I just am confused and hurt why he CONSTANTLY has to bring her up in our intimate moments.
I really am going to talk more to him about this, but I am waiting for him to get back in to town and have time to get together face to face :)
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Fri, April 25, 2008 - 10:18 AMI would trust your feelings or at least check them out with your partner. I found out the hard way that sometimes you cannot compete with new relationship energy and no matter how hard you try to make your partner understand that it is not working for you they simply want to keep going with the new relationship at your expense. Love is a strange beast and there is really no way to control or harness it once it has developed. Also, the more you do try to control the situation such as setting the boundaries the more you will become the problem in his mind.
I was told by a very wise person recently that polyamory only works when it works for each member of the trisd equally. It is the responsibility of your partner just as much as it is your responsibility to communicate the difficult stuff and resolve your differences in a way that works for all parties involved. If your partner doesn't understand that then your partner does not understand polyamory. It is that simple. Think of a triad as a three-legged sack race. If one of the three of you falls down it is the responsibility of the other two to lift the fallen one down and help them across the finish line. Otherwise, it is not a real triad. Also, triads are probably one of the most difficult types of relationships to have.
Sorry to be so bleak. Best of luck to you. I would love to see more happy endings when it came to this sort of thing.
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Fri, April 25, 2008 - 12:23 PMNot sure what I could add to this, but I must say I agree with all the other posters. You and the others all have different ideas as to what is acceptable. If you don't speak up you will end up feeling used and not happy. Being poly means you can love a person and have another love them as well. Seems she is ok with his wife ,but not you...why? Only she knows. But his intent is to have you all fuck together and both of you are not ok with that. He can't force you guys to fall in love with each other. What is his agenda?
Ok rambling....
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 11:03 AMYou're worrying about too many people.
Focus on you and your partner, and let your partner deal with their own issues, such as the cat's ear disease, whether or not they left the gas on and how annoying some chickie-babe is.
Not your problem.
I know it can SEEM like your problem. But it's not.
You have two problems, and one isn't actually "real."
The not-actually-real problem is that you got involved with someone, and now they seem to be wanting to somehow horn in on more of your life. That can SEEM like a problem, but it's not, because they're not communicating with you. So, not a real problem. A pseudo problem. Ignore that person for now.
The REAL problem is that your partner is going on about stuff that wrecks your concentration and seems potentially damaging to your relationship with them. This can be a real hassle. A very common example of this is someone who rags on and on and on about their ex. Makes you wanna knock on their forehead and say "Helllllloooo! Nobody here but you and me, baby!"
The simple solution is to make it clear to your partner that you are NOT INTERESTED in this other person and NOT INTERESTED in finding a way to include them into your life. Practice that, because if your partner is fixated on the thing, you'll be doing it a lot.
If the topic keeps coming up (and it probably will -- the condition seems to usually include cluelessness), feel free (depending on your style) to tell your partner that you will DISENGAGE from the situation if that topic comes up. Naturally, you will be tested, so expect to put your money where your mouth is.
Yeah, it can be difficult sometimes. For example, let's say you're right on the edge of having an orgasm and your partner growls how hot it would be to have both of you. That is a Boundary Test. Pass it or you're doomed. Get them to stop what they're doing, roll 'em out of the coupling, inform them that you are NOT INTERESTED in this conversation, and go do something else.
You don't have to cut them off from the rest of the interface, just be very, very precise about that one topic. TELL them you're being very, very precise about that one topic, and when the topic changes, go back to being as normal as you can. Reward them, if you like. I recommend a World Class Blowjob.
This is how you train yourself to have good boundaries and how you train others to respect them.
Usually there are two results out of this: They either drop the frickin' subject or they bail.
"Bailing" might seem bad to you, until you remember that this is a person who doesn't care about your boundaries. -
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 11:55 AM""Bailing" might seem bad to you, until you remember that this is a person who doesn't care about your boundaries."
Listen to the wise Monkey. This is good stuff.
If you get dumped, you're actually being done a kind favor. Seriously. Wish I could teach this one to my kids before they encounter heartbreaks, but that's unlikely. -
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 1:08 PMAmen to this--and Edward always cuts straight to the point--
But I want to add brace yourself for possibly being called nasty names etc. People don't like being told no, so stay strong. (It's gotten to the point where if I'm callled "arrogant" or a "self-centered bitch" I know I'm on the right track.) -
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 5:17 PM"I want to add brace yourself for possibly being called nasty names etc."
Sure, people hate being called out for their crazy shit, and they'll respond defensively.
Sometimes they come back later and say "Geez, I was such a jerk." Other times they go on and try to spread shit about you.
And people who try spreading shit deserve all the friends they get. ;)
Stay focused on the very, very specific problem, and as far as the rest of life, let it take care of itself.
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 6:52 PMI second LadyLily. Edward is a wise person. As another wise person once said to me, garbage listens to garbage.
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 5:07 PM"Wish I could teach this one to my kids before they encounter heartbreaks, but that's unlikely."
Best you can do is teach by example. Not necessarily by dumping, but consider service situations -- when you're in a store and no one wants to help you, or if you're treated rudely by someone else, you can always leave.
Why truck with those who are not delighted to truck with us?
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 5:31 PM"Best you can do is teach by example."
Indeed. And that's a good point. Not everything has to be directly about romantic relationships! -
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 5:49 PM"Not everything has to be directly about romantic relationships!"
Yep.
I'd wager that the best romantic relationship skills are BEST when not taught as a part of romantic relationships, perhaps slipped quietly into "business relationships" and then, once they've been stapled in well, connected to romantic relationships.
The paradigm shift is fun to watch.
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 3:29 PMI wish I could be more sure one thing translated into the other--
but I have no problem chairing council meetings or writing letters to the editor or negotiating with car salesmen or publicly taking on my bosses over some issue I think is important (yeah I'm a pain in the ass), but I often wimp out in my romantic relationships. (I have probably walked out on more car salesmen than on boyfriends.) A good therapist once pointed out that it's because I never saw my mother doing any of those other things, but I saw her interact with my father every day, and I was raised to defer to men. So I think it's important to remember that our sons and daughters are paying attention--even when we think they don't notice--specifically in that context-- -
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 10:37 PM"So I think it's important to remember that our sons and daughters are paying attention--even when we think they don't notice--specifically in that context--"
They pay attention to EVERYTHING. Especially the stuff one tries to hide, even from oneself.
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 7:17 PM"Best you can do is teach by example. Not necessarily by dumping, but consider service situations -- when you're in a store and no one wants to help you, or if you're treated rudely by someone else, you can always leave."
Edward, your comments are very insightful, and I have a real-life story to support what you say.
When my daughter was 7 years old, we had lunch one day in the restaurant of a big department store at the mall. At the end of the meal, we couldn't get a check so I could pay. The waitress had gone home with her pad, and the staff insisted I had to wait until they found her and she came back. They wouldn't take my word for what we'd eaten, so I couldn't pay. The situation was ridiculous. After 15 minutes of waiting, I took out my store credit card and a piece of paper and wrote down the card number. I said, "When you figure it out, put it on my account." And we walked out, with the hostess chasing after us and the manager reaching for the phone to call security. We went down the escalator, through the store, and out to parking lot with my daughter almost hysterical .. she thought we would be arrested.
We had a talk about standing up for your rights, and customer service and how you should be treated and treat others with courtesy, and why it was not stealing to walk out without paying. (And weeks later when I got my credit card bill with our meal on it, I showed it to her.)
Over the years, I embarrassed her in other restaurants and stores also, for example by calmly sending back poorly cooked food. But as she got older, she learned to do it for herself.
Seventeen years after the department store incident, she was living with her fiance. Two weeks before the wedding she found out he had been lying to her over a period of time about something important. She walked out the door, undid all the wedding arrangements, and never went back. I was so proud of her.
Until today, I never thought of the connection between those events. Thank you Edward. -
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 11:51 AMSusan, you are such a strong parent. Hur-rah for you and your strong daughter!
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 1:20 PM"The waitress had gone home with her pad, and the staff insisted I had to wait until they found her and she came back."
She was forgetful, which is perfectly human, but keeping you there was just unnecessary.
A similar thing happened to me before -- I simply wrote down exactly what I ordered, paid out the cash for it, offered it to the manager, and was on my way. This was all very civil. The manager kept apologizing for losing the bill, and I assured him that everybody's human and to please not be too hard on my waitress -- she was a good waitress who just forgot something and I'm sure her embarrassment would be plenty of inducement to be more careful on that point in the future. I honestly hope she wasn't punished at all for that. Lord knows I've fucked up things before. 8)
I'm sorry to hear the staff in your situation could not grasp that sort of solution.
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 11:20 AM"If you get dumped, you're actually being done a kind favor."
I finally figured that one out recently. Which reminds me, To those concerned: Thank you for the kind favor.
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 2:49 PMI'd avoid the whole part about her possibly being in love with him and wanting you out of the picture, that sounds like unconfirmed drama, which ultimately is between her and him. I'd focus on your relationship with him and probably say something like...
"Hey, I have to get this off my chest because it's been bugging me. I've realized I'm just not into that chick and couldn't do a threesome with her, in fact it makes me a little uncomfortable when you talk about her like you do when we're spending time together. I realize you have a crush on her and want to spend time with her, and that's perfectly OK on your own time. But I want our time together to be just about you and me. I hope you understand how I feel and are cool with it, because I have the hots for you big time and you're really important to me." -
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Tue, April 29, 2008 - 12:22 AMlove love love how simple you put that. That basically sums up how I feel without drama and major emotion. whew...
Im so happy to find people on here that have lived what I live (and love)...and know how to maneuver though such sticky situations.
THANKS SOOOOO MUCH GUYS.
I will let you know how he responds soon :) -
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 12:03 PMNo problem... I'm pretty simple and direct usually. My attempt is usually to be frank, yet avoid putting people on the defensive, which tends to breed fighting and drama. And I'm a relationship drama hater.
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 10:04 PMUpdate...
I anxiously awaited the return of my honey, and was happy to finally hear that he was home. Trying to manuver around his scheduled time with his wife and our work, I had tried contacting him numerous times with no answer or return of my calls. Finally I had run into him and he was moody and unwilling to talk. I frankly stated that if he was going to be too immature to have a discussion with me...(even if it was a conversation in which he told me that he was angry at my unwillingness to participate in his fantasy) then the relationship need not continue. Im hurt...so very hurt because he was fine with it...didnt want to communicate. I guess he just didnt care for me like he had always told me.
The one really really positive thing out of all of this is that My sweet loving husband has been so supportive (even his gf has been there for me) and has been extra attentive. I am sad because this is my first try at a poly relationship, and it failed...but at least I know my marriage is rock solid...and that I will always have him. -
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 10:11 PMOuch. That sounds way too familiar to me. On a positive note, the support of your husband sounds familiar too. My wife has been a real trooper with me and we have reconnected in ways that we had not connected before my attempt at polyamory. I have not given up but I do plan to learn as much as I can from my failed relationship and put the lessons to work in my future poly relationships.
Time heals all but support and compassion from others will definitely go a long way to hasten your healing process. Best of luck to you.
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Re: How do you tactfully decline opening up for a triad.....???
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 1:02 PMOh honey, I'm so sorry you got hurt. I know that story too. Don't torture yourself thinking about whether he cared for you--this is about his problems and issues, not about your value. You did the right thing, standing up for yourself and refusing to continue with the relationship. Don't give up on poly if it's what you want--mono or poly, people have problems and things sometimes don't work out. Whichever you prefer, there will be challenges and setbacks but also the potential for something very satisfying.
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