I’ve recently read something about HIV and transfer by oral sex. I rarely hear anyone say they actually do anything to protect against this. There is A LOT of info on STDs out there and a lot of talk here about testing and being safe. The massive amount of info out there can be confusing…sooooo
Is there anyone here that really understands these issues and the FACTS that surround them?
Is HIV or other STDs as easily spread with unprotected oral sex vs. fluid-bonding?
What about the real chance of contracting each STD through unprotected sex or protected sex?
Let’s hear some real facts or links to specific sites that give vetted medical info, not just someone’s opinion…this would really be beneficial to me and others I know.
THANKS in advance
Is there anyone here that really understands these issues and the FACTS that surround them?
Is HIV or other STDs as easily spread with unprotected oral sex vs. fluid-bonding?
What about the real chance of contracting each STD through unprotected sex or protected sex?
Let’s hear some real facts or links to specific sites that give vetted medical info, not just someone’s opinion…this would really be beneficial to me and others I know.
THANKS in advance
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Re: STD Facts??
06/11"Is there anyone here that really understands these issues and the FACTS that surround them? "
Define "really" - there is research and there are studies, but the information is often incomplete and new data sometimes contradicts old data. So if you want a subtle, not-complete, scientifically accurate set of info that's one thing, but if you want a "do this, don't do that" set of info, that's another.
"Is HIV or other STDs as easily spread with unprotected oral sex vs. fluid-bonding? "
I assume you mean fluid exchange here. The answer is no. "Spread" yes, "As easily spread" no. There have only been a very, very small number of documented cases of HIV being passed via oral contact, vs millions of documented cases of it being passed via unprotected vaginal or oral sex.
"What about the real chance of contracting each STD through unprotected sex or protected sex? "
Again, what do you mean by "real"? There are so many variables at play that the best researchers can do often is to give a range of probability. That range has to do with the population they've studied. I can't say whether you and your behaviors and partner choices fit into that range. If you "really" want to know, read the scientific literature. Anything else has been boiled down and may miss information that's relevant to you.
It's also important to keep in mind that STIs don't just pop up out of nowhere. You've got to actually have sex with someone who has an STI in order to get it. And exposure doesn't automatically mean infection. If you are being diligent about asking questions, getting tested, partnering with people who make smart choices, using protection more frequently rather than less frequently... your chances of becoming infected with something go down. If you don't get tested, don't ask question, are rather indiscriminate about who you hook up with and don't use protection, your chances of infection go up. The first situation doesn't guarantee you won't get something and the second situation doesn't guarantee you will. But, just as with driving a car, the more you pay attention, the less likely you are to have an accident.
Hope this helps. -
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Re: STD Facts??
06/11Sorry if my question was vauge...I have done lots of reading too but....still some questions never seem to be addressed specifically.
--Define "really" -
As in has filtered through all the research, bogus information on the net or blogs and studies as you mentioned; maybe as part of their profession, a specialty of knowledge they have.
Yes, I meant fluid exchange...
---Again, what do you mean by "real"? ...researchers can do often is to give a range of probability.
Yes, I have read many studies and places that qoute one probability or another, sometimes these vary quite a bit. Hence my inquiry to find someone better suited to filter through all the information availble. So, my question is which ones to trust? Does anyone have a reliable resource...book, Web site or magazine that really goes into details about activities and the risks? I understand a persons different interactions and choosing to be attentive affect the probability.
---very, very small number of documented cases of HIV being passed via oral contact, vs millions of documented cases of it being passed via unprotected vaginal or oral sex.
What are you describing as oral contact vs oral sex....kissing vs. oral genital contact either way?
Thanks for the reply Marcia. -
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Re: STD Facts??
06/12Well, I have training as sex educator and have done a ton of reading as well as talking to the doctors at the city clinics in New York. I'm not a medical professional or a researcher.
Specifically, there are a handful (less than 10, I believe) of cases where HIV was passed from receiver to giver via oral sex on a penis. IIRC, the people who were infected had advanced gum disease, which led them to be susceptible when they were exposed to the virus. Unprotected oral sex is a low-risk activity for HIV, unless, of course, you have advanced gum disease (or maybe something else that hasn't been discovered yet). However, there are other things that are more likely than HIV to spread via oral sex, such as HSV and gonorrhea.
So, it's important to remember that different infections are transmitted in different ways, and to be clear about which things you're concerned about and which things you're not (or are less concerned about.) In my experience, a strategy of harm reduction is less crazy-making than a strategy of harm elimination.
After all, if we taught people to drive the way we teach sex, we'd start off with, "DON'T EVER DRIVE A CAR. YOU COULD GET DECAPITATED!!!" which, ya know, is true, and does happen to some drivers. And other horrific things happen to other drivers. Some of them kill their friends and family. Some kill dogs and squirrels. Driving makes killers, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't drive. You just do the things that reduce the likelihood of that happening (driving sober, wearing seatbelts, don't drive when you're tired, stay alert, make sure your car's in good condition, don't ride with someone you KNOW is drunk, etc.) and then you don't think about it.
With sex, it's a little different because it's a partnered activity vs attempting to control a one-ton hunk of metal that uses explosives as its means of propulsion. However, the same sorts of harm-reduction guidelines apply when you're not celibate or strictly monogamous: get tested regularly, ask your partners what they're up to when you're not around, make choices when you're sober, err on the side of using barriers when you have any doubt, accept that something MIGHT happen, etc. Then move on and have some fun. -
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Re: STD Facts??
06/12Thank you for using the car analogy. That was really excellent and does put things into a good perspective.
I actually use it as a little mental exercise for risk assessment. "Is this more or less dangerous than me getting in my car, putting on my seatbelt and driving six miles to the grocery store?"
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Re: STD Facts??
06/12Six miles to a grocery store?! I don't think I've lived more than a few blocks from groceries my whole adult life... But that's kind of irrelevant.
The problem with the car analogy is the reason for driving vs. the reason for having sex. If you're driving to work or to run a critical errand like groceries, then that's pretty important and justifies more risk than if you're just driving for fun. Though people certainly do drive for fun a lot! Maybe a better parallel would be driving to see your lover?
Also, the one thing that I find particularly bemusing about the whole safety of sex thing is that the more serious the relationship, the lower the risk (usually). Casual sex has the most risk as you don't know where that person's been or if they're lying to you. But the better you know someone, the more likely you can trust them (though it's never 100% of course). I'm having trouble tying that back into the car analogy - sex with your long term partner is more like driving a safer car? -
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Re: STD Facts??
06/13Well, you know, some folks DO actually still have sex to, ya know, accomplish stuff. Like kids.
Just sayin.
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Unsu...
Re: STD Facts??
06/14I totally agree with this--I think the mainstream healthcare industry focuses way too much on the idea that NO sexual activity is safe, whereas when you look at the actual per-act risks, some things are exponentially less dangerous than others. It could make sense, depending on your risk tolerance, to use condoms for some activities and not for others and we'd still be doing a ton epidemiologically to reduce the incidence of HIV in the population--but instead we're focused intensely on this idea that "nothing is safe."
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Re: STD Facts??
06/11"There have only been a very, very small number of documented cases of HIV being passed via oral contact, vs millions of documented cases of it being passed via unprotected vaginal or oral sex. "
I think you mean unprotected anal sex.
And I agree that it really is a matter of assessing your own sexual interactions as well as being knowledgeable about the risks that are out there.
I would recommend The CDC's website www.cdc.gov/STD/ for statistical info on what the rate of transmission is for STIs.
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Re: STD Facts??
06/12Yes, I did mean anal sex. Thanks for catching that. :)
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Re: STD Facts??
06/11Here is a handy chart that summarizes the known risks for most common practices:
www.dph.sf.ca.us/sfcitycli...dchart.asp
I find it really useful in these conversations!
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Re: STD Facts??
06/11Personally, I used to be a counselor on the Florida HIV/AIDS hotline, and since then I've kept up with current research regarding STDs and HIV.
It's true that HIV and certain other STDs (Gonnorhea, HPV, Herpes, Syphilis) can be transmitted through oral sex. It should be noted that RECEIVING oral sex is in many cases safer than PERFORMING oral sex (especially with HIV because saliva does not contain enough of the virus to pose a risk of infection. The presence of blood in the mouth could change this).
It's also true that nobody knows the exact risk involved. All we can do is ask people who test HIV positive what kinds of activities they engaged in before becoming HIV positive. Sometimes people are identified who contract HIV after only engaging in oral sex, and that's how we know that this is a potential way for HIV to enter the body.
My feeling is that ANY risk is too much risk when you're dealing with your health and the health of your partner(s). For my wife and me, we only have 2 rules for our secondaries: Before any kind of sex (oral, vaginal, protected, unprotected) get the new partner tested for HIV and other STDs, and make them show you the test result. I admit we're on the extreme side of things, but as two people who have seen first hand how HIV affects the lives of the people it affects, we would rather not take chances. -
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Re: STD Facts??
06/11Thanks Spart for the link...I hadn't come across that one yet. I like the question and answer section on the main site.
Bradley...thanks for the input. We also have the rule of testing and being tested regularly and all new partners. I don't think it's too anal...safety first...makes having the fun lots less stressful.
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Re: STD Facts??
06/14I have seen a few articles that say that GERD, gastro-esophageal reflux disease, can increase the chances of infection from swallowing semen. Many folks with GERD have tears or erosions in their esophagus which can make an easier entry point into the bloodsteam. So can gum disease, hiatal hernias, and having burnt your mouth drinking hot liquids.
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Re: STD Facts??
06/11Just as an addendum: you might want to mosey on down to your local clinic or Planned Parenthood and ask what the risks IN YOUR AREA are. Different areas have different risk levels. For example: Portland is having a huge Herpes outbreak right now. That's good to know when assessing risk. -
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Re: STD Facts??
06/11---Just as an addendum: you might want to mosey on down to your local clinic or Planned Parenthood and ask what the risks IN YOUR AREA are.
I will do that when I go to get my yearly tests next week...part of the reason for wanting to hear from others and finding out more info...can't ever be too informed.
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Re: STD Facts??
06/11"Portland is having a huge Herpes outbreak right now."
Not surprised. -
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Re: STD Facts??
06/11Meh, everywhere goes through phases. When I left South Dakota was going through an HIV outbreak, but nobody living there seemed to be aware of it. DC was going through epic everything outbreaks the entire time I lived there. There are cycles, it's just good to know what cycle your area is in at the moment.
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Re: STD Facts??
06/12Here in the San Francisco bay area, the focus has been on syphilis outbreaks. Personally, until I've gotten to know someone enough to trust them, and seen their recent test results, I'll use barriers for oral.
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Unsu...
Re: STD Facts??
06/12Contrary to what most health care websites would have us believe, there is an enormous amount of clinical research that has generated a lot of very precise-sounding numbers about the chances of transmission for HIV per event for each sexual act. I wish I remember where I'd found these--I didn't bookmark the websites--but if you want the real answers to your questions, they do exist. The chances of transmission by unprotected oral sex are very small but most physicians agree there is some evidence that it does happen--but don't take my word for it, and if you can locate the websites, post the bookmark so we can all know the answers.
For perspective-taking, it's also helpful to know that one's chances of dying by being hit by a car as a pedestrian in any given year are 1 in 5,877. -
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Re: STD Facts??
06/13I've posted a graph of the most recent comparative analysis (2002) of per-act transmission risks to the photos section. These data come from Beena, et al., "Reducing the Risk of Sexual HIV Transmission: Quantifying the Per-Act Risk for HIV on the Basis of Choice of Partner, Sex Act, and Condom Use", Sexually Transmitted Diseases:Volume 29(1)January 2002pp 38-43.
polyamory.tribe.net/photos/8...ce0542a92 -
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Unsu...
Re: STD Facts??
06/13Thank you very much. Here's another chart from the University of Washington that estimates risk of transmission where one partner is known to be positive. These numbers are lower than some I've seen but they are based on a 2005 study.
depts.washington.edu/hivaids...g1d.html -
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Re: STD Facts??
06/13I wonder how much the risk is reduced if all parties have been tested for HIV within the last 6 months...
I read in one of the links provided below that 3 of the common STDs (Gonorrhea, Syphilis, Chlamydia) now have cures...did I read that right? That herpes and and obviously HIV still don't. -
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Unsu...
Re: STD Facts??
06/13gonorrhea, syphilis and chlamydia are all curable by antibiotics, and have been for many decades--the problem is that many people don't know they have them.
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Re: STD Facts??
06/13If all parties are tested and none have had any potential exposure to HIV in the 6 months prior to the test, the risk is essentially zero. -
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Re: STD Facts??
06/13Thanks Bradley...I realized what I had posted was not a question that I needed to ask once I hit the submit button...
Two questions -
I thought I heard some company was trying to develop a mouth swab that could be used to test for HIV and it was going to be sold as a home test product...answer in less than 30 minutes...and on that note are there currently any STD home test products available?
The last time I went to PP to get their standard STD test I believe I was told that the urine test they did for me only detected HIV if exposure was more than 6 months prior to the test. In reading from all the great links posted I saw that blood test can now reliably detect the virus if exposure was only a few days prior to testing, is that correct?
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Unsu...
Re: STD Facts??
06/13There isn't a home oral test now, but most HIV testing clinics now use the 30-minute oral method. There is one FDA approved home test, it's called Home Access. You collect your own blood and mail it to the lab.
Only very conservative institutions still recommend testing at 6 months. With current procedures most places consider a negative HIV test 3 months post exposure to be conclusive, and the vast majority of those who will test positive will do so at 6 weeks. Usually you'll see a recommendation to test at 6 weeks and at 3 months. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: STD Facts??
06/13And my own experience is now that there's the 30-minute test, HIV testing is not a big deal or drama anymore. There's no reason everyone shouldn't just routinely do it once a year or so, then we could all relax. Imagine that.
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Re: STD Facts??
06/15"I wonder how much the risk is reduced if all parties have been tested for HIV within the last 6 months..."
This may be obvious, but it's important to remember that testing isn't preventative. You could get tested every month, but if you are doing crystal meth every weekend and bottoming for unprotected anal sex with strangers, you could be HIV positive, even if your most recent test results are negative.
Behavior dictates likelihood of exposure. Frequency of exposure increases the likelihood of infection. Testing just gives a snapshot of where you were recently, which is helpful for having conversations (and, if necessary, treatment) but it doesn't do anything by itself to keep you from becoming infected.
As someone else said, the biggest issue with most common STDs is that people don't know they are infected, not that they aren't treatable. Getting tested regularly will help you nip any of these things in the bud, and it's a relatively simple course of antibiotics to cure the infection.
Hope this is helpful.
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Re: STD Facts??
06/13---A long term partner is like a road you know well, with all the attendant risks (you are more likely to be careless and not notice a new hazard until it's too late).
Geezzz first I gotta start driving with gas at $4, now I shouldn't have longterm relationships because I'll get lazy in my monitoring of it!?? Man, I'm just gonna find a cave in the mountains to hide ! ;o)
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Re: STD Facts??
06/13---For perspective-taking, it's also helpful to know that one's chances of dying by being hit by a car as a pedestrian in any given year are 1 in 5,877.
What!!...now I'm going to have to just drive everywhere! geeezzzzzz ;o)
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