I was listening to an old episode of the Polyamory Weekly podcast, where Minx was interviewing (I think) Omaha Sternberg, and they were talking at one point about about the whole primary/secondary thing. The question was how do you deal with infinite love in finite time? The guest described how she used the words primary, secondary, and tertiary to describe not the amount of love you feel for the partner but more about how much time you spend with them. She lives with her husband/primary, sees secondary partners once every 1-2 weeks, and tertiary partners monthly or less.
That got me to thinking, maybe instead of primary/secondary/tertiary terminology we should use words like "daily partner" for primary, and "weekly partner" or "monthly partner" for others? Would that be more palatable to those who dislike the hierarchical terminology?
That got me to thinking, maybe instead of primary/secondary/tertiary terminology we should use words like "daily partner" for primary, and "weekly partner" or "monthly partner" for others? Would that be more palatable to those who dislike the hierarchical terminology?
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Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Fri, April 11, 2008 - 11:20 PMWhy do you think the differentiation is unpalatable to people? -
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Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Sat, April 12, 2008 - 3:07 AMPrimary, secondary and terciary...meaning first, second and third - always felt to me like a value judgement.
It feels like I'm saying, "I want to spend more time with you because I like you more."
When in reality, I feel more like, "I want to spend more time with you because I like you differently."
Each relationship is as unique as the people relating within it.
Neither is above or below, nor are they necessarily in lateral positions.
They are all simply as eclectic as the people involved.
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Unsu...
Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Sat, April 12, 2008 - 9:20 AMToo much like the "first wife, second wife thing." We're already fighting a lot of natural/social impulses to compete, don't need any encouragement from terminology.
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Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Sun, April 13, 2008 - 1:54 PM"Why do you think the differentiation is unpalatable to people?"
I ask this because it seems that the proposed "solution" makes assumptions about the "problem".
So, it makes sense to ask what you think the "problem" is to see if the "solution" actually addresses it.
It also helps because if the "problem" is actually misunderstood, then it saves a lot of time and frustration coming up with different solutions. -
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Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Sun, April 13, 2008 - 2:23 PMTo be honest I am not fond of the ranking system, I am unable to rank my partners in my heart. I love both of them equally, would sacrifice for them equally and the newer of my partners, which some would call a secondary in the ranking system, I usually spend more time with because she lives closer, its easier for her to come by after work for dinner and cuddling on a weeknight and get us through the workweek. Personally I prefer the term co-primaries if you have to label them as such, I generally just think of each of my partners as Partners, my loves, people I want to spend the rest of my life with. -
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Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Tue, April 15, 2008 - 5:42 PMI don't think that "ranking" per se is the problem. Probably what is inadequate is the way we rank, using only one parameter.
Someone suggested to use the amount of time spent with partners to put them in order but I see people in this thread using different values.
I think this is what make us feel uncomfortable, because using other values, the order would probably be different.
Unfortunately the word primary/secondary infer the existence of an absolute ranking scale. In this case should be more appropriate "the partner with whom I spend more time".
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Unsu...
Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Sun, April 13, 2008 - 3:01 PMThis is a good point--
Simon raises the issue that "primary" can also mean "first" *chronologically* though most people on the list don't seem to use it that way. But it raises the issue that it can be much harder--at least for me, it's much more of a trick, depending on the situation--to watch a lover, especially a long-term one you're used to sharing most of your life with, start up with someone else than it is to join a pre-existing situation. It may be the flexibility of the word "primary" that's useful in these situations--it reassures the "old" partner that s/he is "first" without specifying exactly how; my objection is that it can also be used to put the "secondary" partner "in his/her place"--it does't have to be, but it can work that way. So if the purpose of the "primary/secondary" distinction is to eliminate hurt feelings and confusion by making sure everyone feels secure knowing exactly what's going on, it seems like there are some problems there. But changing designations to "once a week" etc. wouldn't address the issue Simon raises--the feelings of someone in an established relationship who fears losing an important part of his/her life.
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Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Sat, April 12, 2008 - 3:21 PMAn excellent point. It really is all about time. Love is infinite; time is limited - 24 hrs a day - tho I have ordered more. It's on backorder....
And I like what GA said about "wanting to spend more time" and "lateral" positions. I guess it's all in what you agree to?
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Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Sun, April 13, 2008 - 6:03 PMA rose, by any other name. *shrugs* To each their own.
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Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Sun, April 13, 2008 - 9:32 PMI think just for going the labels is best (for me and mine). I have my husband and boyfriend. My husband and I have our mutual obligations, and thus spend the most about of time and energy on one another. Though my one boyfriend I only see weekly or so, my other boyfriend and I see each other almost daily, because our lives are very intertwined. If I had to assign a hierarchal title, he is a secondary, and no closer to me then my b/f I see weekly. -
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Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Sun, April 13, 2008 - 9:34 PMThere's that pesky "husband" label again ;) -
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Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Mon, April 21, 2008 - 10:11 AMSorry, forgoing the "primary/secondary" labels. :D
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Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Tue, April 15, 2008 - 3:20 PMNah, it doesn't really fix the problem for me. One of the problems for me is the issue of sticking someone somewhere in a way that seems static. Maybe I usually spend every day with lover A and only see lover B every other week, but then maybe it's summer and lover B and I want to spend nearly every day together while he's not teaching for three months. This seems harder to do if everyone already had some sort of expectation set up based on how we refer to each other. But it's easier on the expectations if we've only ever said that we do in the moment what feels right - no static boxes.
I don't really care for the "finite time" argument anyway. Often, I hear it used as a cop-out. Sure, there's an upper limit to time, but most of the people I know aren't really anywhere near the ceiling. We all have our little ways that we "waste" time - room to rearrange priorities if we really wanted to. And then there's all the time spent 1-on-1 that could be expanded to include more of our infinite love. Yes, I need 1-on-1 time with each of my lovers, but it's not usually nearly as much as we actually end up taking. Every time we go out to dinner with just the two of us, or watch a movie alone together, or whatever, is space where more time with other people we love could be added. We get more love out of polyamory by folding our love over on itself - simultaneous partnerships rather than serial monogamy. We can fold time over on itself, too.
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Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Mon, April 21, 2008 - 8:08 AMI try not to use the terminology. I call everyone of the people in my romantic life part of my "tribe". Then I go into how much time I get to spend with each......which is usually based on our distance from one another or how busy the rest of our lives are. I also tell people that I treat everyone I meet with the same respect I would give to a potential or current lover. By doing this, everyone in my life feels loved regardless as to how much time I spend with them. When I am with even the ones I only get to see once a year, they are still treated as if I see them every day, and I make them feel the same amount of love.
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Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Thu, May 1, 2008 - 5:31 PMI have my own words that describe my different relationships and how involved they are in my life and have never felt the need to use anybody else's terminology or to demand others use mind. What is the problem? If you don't like the terms "primary," "secondary," and "tertiary," then don't use them. There are so many other words for our beloveds available to you. Don't know which you want to use? Take out a thesaurus and start looking up words like "lover," "partner," beloved," "mate," etc. You get the idea. Why do we need uniform terminology when we don't have uniform relationship styles? Pick the words that resonate with you, or call them all the same thing (if you don't like structural labels then why use different labels at all?) and assume that the people who need to know can have a more in-depth communication with you about it. -
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Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 5:21 AM"Pick the words that resonate with you, or call them all the same thing (if you don't like structural labels then why use different labels at all?) and assume that the people who need to know can have a more in-depth communication with you about it."
I really think that, unless you're trying to get strangers to understand you right off the bat (which I might argue isn't very likely even if language weren't so mutable), it's best to just explain what you want in a relationship, using several different ways to say it and explain how you view love and loving relationships.
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Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Thu, May 15, 2008 - 8:44 PMMaybe it is just me, but I am married and I put my husband first in my life, and that is why I would call him my primary. No matter what, if there is something wrong in that relationship, I have to pay attention to that and work on the issues at hand. Other people that come into our lives are secondaries, as I am not going to make the same committment that I made to my husband. I don't know, maybe that makes me lean closer to the monogamous side of things. Secondaries are people that you spend less time with in my opinion. But I think the way you label it has everything to do with the way that you live it. If eveyone is equal, then you may not call it primary, secondary, and so on... Maybe you could just call them other things such as boyfriend, life partner, husband...Just my thoughts. -
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Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 12:40 AMI'm exactly the same way. I started the thread to try to find a middle ground that might work for those who don't look at it the way you and I do.
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Re: Another way of looking at primary/secondary/tertiary
Sat, May 17, 2008 - 1:06 AM"Maybe you could just call them other things such as boyfriend, life partner, husband..."
Surely they have "names"... ;)
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