Impact of the FLDS church on the real polyamory community?

topic posted Tue, April 29, 2008 - 5:48 AM by  Andy
Hi all.

A few years ago, I was explaining to someone what polyamory actually is (the old "Poly 101" talk), and she actually thought I was one of those Fundamentalist Mormons (Warren Jeffs' crowd). While I was able to clear that up pretty quickly by explaining that I'm not even "religious" in the traditional sense and emphasizing that real poly absolutely must be consensual, lately I've been keeping half an eye on the story about the removal of those children from the FLDS compound in Texas and a question has started popping into my brain. I notice that the news stories about it put a lot of emphasis on the polygamy aspect of the sect, and I wonder what, if any impact the media attention may have on real, consensual poly families/groups/communities.

Has anyone else here been mistaken for Mormon or FLDS? Do you think that social services agencies may get entirely the wrong idea about polyamory and start trying to break up poly families? Would there be anything we could do to prevent such a misunderstanding, besides simply patient explanation? Just curious to hear others' thoughts.

Peace,
--Andy
posted by:
Andy
Virginia
  • Yes, it could happen.

    Tapestry Against Polygamy would NOT open a dialog with me AT ALL when I was running PolyFamilies. The woman who runs it is really pretty harsh on the subject.

    I wish I could blame her, but from where she sits, it's impossible for her to see the difference.
    • I think I get where she's coming from. To make a weird analogy, if the only experiences of squirrels someone has had are encounters with rabid ones, it would be easy for someone to conclude that it's pretty likely that all of them are rabid. Hopefully in time though, she'll be more open to the fact that not all polyamorists are rabid :)--even if she doesn't agree with or condone the practice herself.

      Hmm...Maybe we need a sort of "Polyamorists Against Coerced Polygamy" effort? Or would that even do any good?
      • Yeah, Andy, I do think it's pretty much like that.

        The other problem is that just because we call it polyamory doesn't mean that some of the FDLS abuses aren't POSSIBLE. One of the problems with alternative lifestyles in general is that because you're combatting the dominant social paradigm in your daily life, it's easy to fall into some of the possible abuses and brush aside CLEAR warning signs as "Oh, they're just prejudiced against polyamory/BDSM/gerbil jamming!"

        I talk about this a little bit in my column: www.polyamorousmisanthrope.com/20...71/
  • "...the real polyamory community"

    ROFL!

    IMHE, one poly is as different from another as any of us are from the FLDS.

    And as Noel intimated, I've seen abuses in the "real" polyamory community every bit as bad.
    • Perhaps I could have phrased "the real polyamory community" differently/better, but I'll clarify that what I meant was "those of us who practice polyamory--in whatever form--and also don't believe it's OK to make children marry or otherwise coerce anyone into a relationship." I do think that the emphasis on freedom of choice makes all of us at least somewhat part of a community, if a loosely-knit one.
      • What I think is important is for the poly community to understand that "It can't happen to US because we're *foo*" is a dangerous one at best.

        Group dynamics can get REAL interesting if you let it.

        No, we're not ABOUT control of other people. That's not to say it can't and doesn't happen. There are healthy poly families (or groups) and unhealthy ones, just like anything else.

        Hellfire, I bet there are plenty of healthy polygynous marriages, too!
        • Yes, I think that's a good point, and I agree with what you said in your column, Noel: If we don't want to be portrayed as like FLDS, we'd better not act like them--and anyone can adopt a label of "polyamory" to cover practices that most of us would completely avoid. My concern, though, is that no matter what we (of the non-coercive polyamory persuasion) do or don't do, a lot of people who don't understand put so much emphasis on the "poly-" part that they forget about the "-amory" part, so the fallout from the hype about polygamy could really bite us.

          This reminds me of something else I've had to deal with about another facet of my worldview, i.e. the fact that I consider myself an anarchist. Totally aside from any debates about the practicality of anarchism (and I know that can go around and around), a lot of people associate anarchists with hell-raising, obnoxious, and/or violent people who feel they can get away with destroying things because, well, it's "for the people" or "against the system." Frankly, I think the people who do things like that shoot all of us squarely in the foot, and I personally really wonder if they are "really" even anarchists--but unfortunately, that's the banner they choose to wave, so those of us who are opposed to wanton destruction but are for some set of principles that we choose to call "anarchism" get the fallout. Again, this isn't about debating the merits or shortcomings of anarchist philosophy, but just an example of how the bad apples tend to be seen as spoiling the bunch, whether they actually do or not.
          • Yes, Andy, you're right. We could get bitten. I'm not sure what can prevent it.

            Shoot, back when I lived in a group marriage, we moved to a state where there were no laws against anything we did to make sure that we wouldn't get bitten.

            I'm a Virginian, and moving away from generations of "home" to Northern New England was a bit traumatic, but at the time, I felt like it was safer for my family than the Old Dominion, no matter how much I love it.
            • Yeah, I live in northern Virginia myself, and as far as I know it's still even illegal here for a man and a woman who aren't related by blood to reside together--let alone have sex--without being married. While I've never actually been prosecuted under that law, I've already felt the effects of anti-cohabitation prejudice at one time in my life when I was in a long-term, committed, and even monogamous relationship with a woman and we chose to live together without marriage and without producing children. Perhaps that experience is another part of the reason I feel such concern about the impact of FLDS on other "alternative" families.

              Are there any resources available to help us figure out which states, or even other countries, are more legally "poly-friendly" (depending on what form of polyamory we choose)?
              • If you've ever read, "It Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do" by Peter McWilliams, you'll notice a state by state chart on consensual crime. That was accurate up to ten years ago. I've never seen anything like it updated.

                I know they struck adultery off the books as a crime in VA, but that there is a law in effect that makes it hard to write wills and such that will simulate some of the benefits of marriage.
                • Unsu...
                   
                  The most important update would be to note the Supreme Court's 2003 decision declaring sodomy laws unconstitiutional. I'm sure we're all aware of that but just in case. My students are always surprised to learn that oral sex was illegal in Georgia until then :) and not just from Puritan or Victorian times, the law was last renewed in 1986!
  • My understanding is that they would pretty much leave FDLS alone, polygamy and all, if it weren't for the forced marriages of teen age girls. It is sad and certainly damaging that that sick practice is being identified with polygamy.
    • A little factoid I picked up yesterday: On Monday, CPS announced that almost 60 percent of the underage girls living on the Eldorado ranch either have children or are pregnant. Of the 53 girls between the ages of 14 and 17 who are in state custody, 31 either have given birth or were expecting, Azar said. (By MICHELLE ROBERTS - ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER) The FLDS wasn't practicing poygamy, they were practicing mind control and child rape.

      With the crackdown on "child predators" and now this debaucle being lumped in with the FLDS or any such practice could be detrimental to your well being. The Fed's seem to have this "kick down the door & ask questions later" attitude.
  • Personally I don't really feel any effect from polygamist mormon backlash on my own life... but I also don't throw around the word polyamory a lot with non-poly folks. My wife and I did have a funny moment this weekend though hanging out with her parents, who don't know we are poly, when her Mom suggested for Halloween I go as Warren Jeffs and get a bunch of female friends to dress as my wives. My wife and I both looked at each other and started laughing, but the in-laws didn't realize the extra humor in that idea for us.
  • Nobody has ever mistaken me for Mormon of any flavor; not in Virginia (I grew up in Reston), not in Rapid City South Dakota, and certainly not out here in Portland Oregon. It would never cross a person's mind.
    Then again I'm a kinky bisexual pagan who happens to be anti-legal-marriage so I think I'm about as far from FLDS as a body can get. That I'm poly usually isn't the first thing folks notice about me nor the thing they think the most bizarre.

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